To anybody reblogging my post on why response to abuse in ASOIAF is really gross and adding “Daenerys wasn’t abused by Drogo in the books” in the tags, a few things:
- A 13 year old girl just cannot give consent to having sex with a 30 something warlord when she’s sold into marriage with him by her also abusive older brother
- Even if their first night was technically consensual, if Dany hadn’t agreed, he would have taken her by force which doesn’t count as consent.
- After the first night, her chapters include gems like this:
”He always took her from behind, Dothraki fashion, for which Dany was grateful; that way her lord husband could not see the tears that wet her face, and she could use her pillow to muffle her cries of pain. When he was done, he would close his eyes and begin to snore softly and Dany would lie beside him, her body bruised and sore, hurting too much for sleep.”
THAT IS NOT CONSENSUAL.
- Dany romanticizes their relationship after his death but she’s a starving teenager trying to provide for her entire Khalasar when she doesn’t even know how and shows signs of severe Stockholm Syndrome. Just because she doesn’t actively think she’s been abused, modern readers really should know better because I don’t know what else you can call it.
- Marital rape is still rape and this is one of the show’s changes to Dany that I approve of. Their relationship wasn’t romantic or that of equals like Ned and Cat’s.
"Woman King" by Iron & Wine (obvious but true)
"No Church In The Wild" by Kanye & Jay Z & Frank Ocean (I just think?)
"I Miss You" by Björk (“but I haven’t met you yeeeet”)
"Seven Devils" by Florence + The Machine (I can’t resist the obvious)
"Falling Into You" by Celine Dion (for Dany’s romance novel side)
"Faust Overture" by Richard Wagner (FAUST THO)
"In The Hall of the Mountain King" by Edvard Grieg (he doesn’t know it’s satire (it is isn’t it))
"Albatross" by (Peter Green’s) Fleetwood Mac (Proudwing maybe IDK?)
"Please Please Please Let Me Get What I Want" by The Smiths
"A Comet Appears" by The Shins (I’m not just obvious I’m cheap too)
Game of Thrones season three ended just five days ago and we’ve spent the entire time since missing, thinking about, and analyzing it. And is there a better way of looking back than in graph and chart form? Nope! So that’s exactly what we did. We broke down the Unsullied’s signs of loyalty, the meaning of Westeros wedding colors, what Davos and Melisandre symbolize in relation to Stannis, and more. So take a walk down GoT memory lane, stop at a bar (graph), and eat some pie (charts).
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i feel like the biggest issue with dany is that she’s not really FROM westeros and has no real association from the land aside from a desperate and vengeful claim?
Although, like, the first Andals weren’t FROM Westeros. Aegon wasn’t FROM Westeros. If the issue is that she would never be accepted — she could be, really, it’s happened before, especially when the outsiders were seen as superhuman saviors. People were even able to love Rhaegar if I recall correctly. If the issue is more related to her actual skills, I mean yes we’ve seen consequences that have happened as a result of Dany’s unfamiliarity with local customs, but when it comes to Westeros — what is it exactly that people think Dany would do wrong as a result of having grown up elsewhere?
Obviously she would have to adopt Westerosi customs. I just don’t see why we’d assume she won’t.
As for claims, I don’t think ANYONE’s claim to a monarchic divine-ordinance style right to rule is legitimate, per the reasoning laid out by Mance Rayder. About vengeance — I am not sure it’s really any different from Arianne’s desire to protect her birthright. I don’t think having the right to rule is any great basic human need or anything, but I don’t see her as very different from, like, Arianne or Stannis, and I don’t think it necessarily means she’d be a bad administrator.
I guess I am curious what people think Dany would do that would be wrong, as a consequence of her having grown up in the Free Cities.
I have no idea if the madness in the Targ family is a genetic thing that could have some kind of delayed onset, and Martin genes don’t make sense to me anyway so I’m going to ignore it.
I honestly don’t think she’d be a bad queen, certainly not worse than what we’ve seen before. I can imagine her doing ruthless things, but you know, the older I get the more I realize just how many rulers of nations have done awful things that makes it hard to admire them. I mean, there’s a case of that right now with the president of the U.S., with like the last five presidents of the U.S. really, so. What do you do with that? Lower your standards? Accept things you find immoral?
Let me just say that I don’t see any reason to dread her more than anyone else that seems like a legitimate contender. She is obviously meant to come across as talented and committed but naive. She could grow, there’s no reason she can’t learn from mistakes, and she has more on the job training than maaaany others. I can’t think of a single ruler candidate, realistic or pure fan-fantasy, that doesn’t have shortcomings. I think one point of ASOIAF is that there is actually no such thing as an ideal ruler except in pure theory.
Now I’m taking this question to pertain to her abilities as ruler of Westeros. There are obviously issues about the blood that would inevitably be shed to get her to that point. As to that, one thing I would add to the on-going debate is that it DOES take two to tango, so that should be accounted for. You can think she will be bad for Westeros for XYZ reasons while still thinking she would be a good administrator, anyway.
I started this one the week before the season 2 finale aired because I was pretty pumped up about the House of the Undying… well we know how that one went down.
In my head it happened like this ok, the end.
Daddy1: That’s our girl
Daddy2: OMG all grown up
“All Unsullied boys are given new names when they are cut: Grey Worm, Red Flea, Black Rat. Names that remind them what they are - vermin.”
JEEZ JORAH AND BARRISTAN
NEVER BREAK THE UNITED FRONT IN FRONT OF THE ENEMY
Obviously, the men are the ones who literally rule in HBO and George R.R. Martin’s world seen in Game of Thrones, but that doesn’t mean the women of the realm don’t also rule in a less literal sense of the word. Whether working though their roles as ladies or shunning the traditional roles expected of them, the women of Game of Thrones are the ones who really rule.
Catelyn Stark - Though her actions are oft criticized, Catelyn’s choices, though not always best, are intended to keep her family safe. She truly exemplifies the Tully house motto, “Family, Duty, Honor.” She protects Bran when a man attempts to take his life, and she attempts to make peace with Renly and Stannis Baratheon for her son. She was even prepared to accept whatever fate awaited her when she released Jaime Lannister in hopes of exchanging him for the safety of her daughters. While many were enraged by her actions, Catelyn wasn’t concerned as she put her family first.
It is not a good sign when 1) you need to start off your character summary with a disclaimer, and 2) you can’t say anything about The Mom except traditional mom strengths.
Arya Stark - Though young, Arya has already realized that being a lady is the last thing she’s concerned with. The only needle she has an interest in is her sword that shares the name. While her attitude early on in the series certainly earns Arya a place among other ladies that rule, its her determination as her situation gets worse that really shows how much Arya rules. From disguising herself as a boy and traveling with the Knight’s Watch to serving as Tywin Lannister’s cupbearer, Arya is smart and determined as she tries to find a way to return to her family.
Fair, but I might point out that a television show that gets The Tomboy correct is hardly groundbreaking in 2013.
Sansa Stark - The well-behaved counterpart to Arya Stark. Where Arya shuns what is expected of her as a lady, Sansa embraces and excels at it. In two seasons viewers have watched Sansa go from a girl who believed her life might end up like the songs she so loved, to a young woman faced with the hard truth that would never happen. She’s been beaten and abused at the hand of her once-betrothed Joffrey Baratheon, and still perseveres as a lone wolf in a den of Lannister lions. While she may not be a fierce fighter like her sister Arya, her fight to keep on in the Red Keep is no less impressive.
Unfortunate that Sansa is introduced basically as Not Arya instead of on her own terms. She may not be a fierce fighter like her sister, but who cares? Why even waste the breath, especially when a Sansa is far more realistic for the setting than an Arya?
Cersei Lannister - Cersei is one of the few women in Game of Thrones who truly are in a position of power as she rules through her son as queen regent. Often times she isn’t as in control as she’d like to believe, but that doesn’t stop he from persevering. Sometimes cruel and always ambitious, Cersei’s actions may be despicable at times, but she always acts for the love of her family.
Cersei’s so very shaped by the extreme sexism she suffers from men who are supposed to support her, it’s pretty egregious not to mention that fuel that gives her ambition its (at times wild) fire. Like mentioning Hamlet without the death of his father.
Brienne of Tarth - While we’ve only briefly begun to get to know Brienne, but she’s probably the strongest female character when it comes to physical strength. Much like young Arya has begun to do, Brienne has shrugged all conventional roles expected of her as a woman. Exceedingly loyal, perhaps even to a fault, Brienne’s continued travels with Jaime Lannister will certainly be entertaining to watch this coming season.
Again, no mention of the sexism Brienne suffers? Is it verboten to remind audiences that their favorite male characters in the show often treat the female characters like shit?
Margaery Tyrell - While readers of the A Song of Ice and Fire series don’t get to know Margaery until much later in the books, we’ve been able to get a better sense of her in the television series. She intends to do whatever it takes to put herself, and her family, in a position of power. First this includes taking on a husband who fancies her brother more than herself, and more recently we’ve seen her betrothed to the loathsome Joffrey Baratheon. It’s clear Margaery wants to rule, and has no intentions of letting anyone or anything stand in her way.
It’d be nice to mention her positive female-female relationship with Olenna, as that’s a critical part of Margaery’s success and something the other female characters don’t have (a female mentor). But fair enough perhaps.
Daenerys Targaryen - Frequently a fan favorite, Daenerys is a woman who knows what she wants, and that is to reclaim the Iron Throne. We watched her grow from a girl who was sold by her brother for a crown, to the mother of dragons. The beginning of season two saw her left in a dismal situation, but by the end we saw the dragon that Daenerys is when she took action against servant Doreah and Xao Xhoan Daxos for their betrayal after reclaiming her stolen dragons. Hopefully we’ll be seeing much more of this fierce Daenerys as she continues on her quest for Westeros.
Dany is the only woman we really see who wants power to do something with that power, and not just power in itself as part of the game of thrones. Would’ve been a good way to differentiate her from the other women with their eyes on the throne. But not a bad writeup for Dany.
Bottom line, the entertainment industry’s grasp of women in fiction and women on television, remains, while well intentioned, pretty basic, which undersells George R.R. Martin’s books.