My Dear Lady Disdain

Onion. 27. USA. ENXP. Sagittarius, Virgo rising*. Liberal, feminist. I pull myself out every day.

*supposedly doesn't believe in astrology.

Welcome all, especially anyone from Göteborg, Sweden!!!

“I will not have the rose and the direwolf in bed together,” declared Lord Tywin. “We must forestall him.”
“How?” asked Cersei.
“By marriage. Yours, to begin with.”
It came so suddenly that Cersei could only stare for a moment. Then her cheeks reddened as if she had been slapped. “No. Not again. I will not.”
“Your Grace,” said Ser Kevan, courteously, “you are a young woman, still fair and fertile. Surely you cannot wish to spend the rest of your days alone? And a new marriage would put to rest this talk of incest for good and all.”
“So long as you remain unwed, you allow Stannis to spread his disgusting slander,” Lord Tywin told his daughter. “You must have a new husband in your bed, to father children on you.”
“Three children is quite sufficient. I am Queen of the Seven Kingdoms, not a brood mare! The Queen Regent!”
“You are my daughter, and will do as I command.”
She stood. “I will not sit here and listen to this - “
“You will if you wish to have any voice in the choice of your next husband,” Lord Tywin said calmly.
When she hesitated, then sat, Tyrion knew she was lost, despite her loud declaration of, “I will not marry again!”
“You will marry and you will breed. Every child you birth makes Stannis more a liar.” Their father’s eyes seemed to pin her to her chair. “Mace Tyrell, Paxter Redwyne, and Doran Martell are wed to younger women likely to outlive them. Balon Greyjoy’s wife is elderly and failing, but such a match would commit us to an alliance with the iron Islands, and I am still uncertain whether that would be our wisest course.”
“No,” Cersei said from between white lips. “No, no, no.”
Tyrion could not quite suppress the grin that came to his lips at the thought of packing his sister off to Pyke. Just when I was about to give up praying, some sweet god gives me this.
Lord Tywin went on. “Oberyn Martell might suit, but the Tyrells would take that very ill. So we must look to the sons. I assume you do not object to wedding a man younger than yourself?”
“I object to wedding any - “
“I have considered the Redwyne twins, Theon Greyjoy, Quentyn Martell, and a number of others. But our alliance with Highgarden was the sword that broke Stannis. It should be tempered and made stronger. Ser Loras has taken the white and Ser Garlan is wed to one of the Fossoways, but there remains the eldest son, the boy they scheme to wed to Sansa Stark.”
Willas Tyrell. Tyrion was taking a wicked pleasure in Cersei’s helpless fury. “That would be the cripple,” he said.
Their father chilled him with a look. “Willas is heir to Highgarden, and by all reports a mild and courtly young man, fond of reading books and looking at the stars. He has a passion for breeding animals as well, and owns the finest hounds, hawks, and horses in the Seven Kingdoms.”
A perfect match, mused Tyrion. Cersei also has a passion for breeding. He pitied poor Willas Tyrell, and did not know whether he wanted to laugh at his sister or weep for her.
“The Tyrell heir would be my choice,” Lord Tywin concluded, “but if you would prefer another, I will hear your reasons.”
“That is so very kind of you, Father,” Cersei said with icy courtesy. “It is such a difficult choice you give me. Who would I sooner take to bed, the old squid or the crippled dog boy? I shall need a few days to consider. Do I have your leave to go?”
You are the queen, Tyrion wanted to tell her. He ought to be begging leave of you.
“Go,” their father said. “We shall talk again after you have composed yourself. Remember your duty.”
Cersei swept stiffly from the room, her rage plain to see. Yet in the end she will do as Father bid. She had proved that with Robert.

A Storm of Swords (George R. R. Martin)

In which everyone with a dick lives up to the name with Cersei, and then wonder why she’s so! darn! angry! all the time!




Hrrrr lol

it so funny Cat talk about hips all times

It’s not like it matters at all that both her houses are on the brink of extinction and heirs are the only way for them to continue.

NO NO SHE’S JUST JUDGY

LAWL




imnot12:

Guys, GUESS WHAT? I really like Sansa.

I get it if you don’t like her very much at book 1, but besides that… I’m judging you if you don’t admit that she’s as fierce as Arya.

(via samyulle)




Layout of Winterfell (Riusma, A Wiki of Ice and Fire)

KEY:
1.North Gate 2.Broken Tower 3.Glass Garden 4.Crypts 5.First Keep 6.Godswood 7. Guards Hall 8.East Gate 9.Armory 10.Hunter’s Gate 11.kennels 12.Guest House 13. Bridge between the Armory and the Great Keep 14.Great Keep 15.Maester’s Turret 16.Kitchen 17.Courtyard 18.Bell Tower 19.Library Tower 20.Sept 21.Stables 22.Great Hall 23.Smithy 24.South Gate




Anti-feminist Cat strikes again!

“A woman can rule as wisely as a man,” Catelyn said.

“She says yes, provided she finds a man who suits her,” Brynden Tully said, “but she has already rejected Lord Nestor and a dozen other suitable men. She swears that this time she will choose her lord husband.”

“You of all people can scarce fault her for that.”

Duuuuude.  Look at her estimation of women’s administrative capabilities!  Look at her hard stance against choice for women!  BITCH WOULD SELL OUT HER OWN SISTER TBH.
 

If you had to fall into a woman’s arms, my son, why couldn’t they have been Margaery Tyrell’s?

That’s some heavy heavy slut-shaming for a young woman hypothetically sleeping with her son out of wedlock.  CAT YOU ASSHOLE.
 

Catelyn rose, threw on a robe, and descended the steps to the darkened solar to stand over her father. A sense of helpless dread filled her. “Father,” she said, “Father, I know what you did.” She was no longer an innocent bride with a head full of dreams. She was a widow, a traitor, a grieving mother, and wise, wise in the ways of the world.

So clearly implying that she thinks Lysa deserved every terrible thing her father did to her!  FUCK, CAT, FUCK.
 

The next day, as she broke her fast, Catelyn asked for quill and paper and began a letter to her sister in the Vale of Arryn. She told Lysa of Bran and Rickon, struggling with the words, but mostly she wrote of their father. His thoughts are all of the wrong he did you, now that his time grows short. Maester Vyman says he dare not make the milk of the poppy any stronger. It is time for Father to lay down his sword and shield. It is time for him to rest. Yet he fights on grimly, will not yield. It is for your sake, I think. He needs your forgiveness.

Atta girl, Cat.  Go on, tell your whore of a sister how it was all her fault for breaking the rules and how the patriarchy dealt with her just as she deserved.  ON YOUR KNEES, HARLOTS.
 

She sounded so like Sansa, so happy and innocent with her dreams.  Catelyn smiled, but the smile was tinged with sadness. The Redforts were an old name in the Vale, she knew, with the blood of the First Men in their veins. His love she might be, but no Redfort would ever wed a bastard. His family would arrange a more suitable match for him, to a Corbray or a Waynwood or a Royce, or perhaps a daughter of some greater house outside the Vale. If Mychel Redfort laid with this girl at all, it would be on the wrong side of the sheet.

BTW Cat why you gotta hate Mya Stone like that?  Because she dared to sleep with a noble-born boy, whom you clearly regard with high esteem? WHY CAT WHY. OH THE HORRORS SHE SOUNDED SO LIKE SANSA OH THE HORRORS YOU BITCH YOU BITCH YOU BITCH.




shmoop.com: Catelyn Stark character analysis ›

Shmoop.com is a Sparknotes-like website whose aim is “To make learning and writing more fun and relevant for students in the digital age.”  Per their own description, “We’re educators and experts. We’re from Ph.D. and Masters programs at Stanford, Harvard, UC Berkeley (and other top universities). The vast majority of our writers have taught at the high school or college levels.”  Under their self-contained bestsellers section hey have a “new!” addition: ASOIAF’s first book, A Game of Thrones.

Linked is their analysis of Cat’s character. The book is big and the website is only in the business of briefing, so a lengthy dissection is not on the table. Still, even a short piece can be accurate and quality. Certainly in my own life, being brief and yet comprehensive has been not only preferable, but some degree of necessary (despite the fact that I am bad at it … but then nobody hires me to write websites with self-professed goals of informativeness).

It’s pretty run of the mill as far as conception of Cat’s character goes, but that’s exactly why I make note of it — this is the rap, egregiously definitively so, of the character.  Catelyn is introduced as “Mama Direwolf”, an innocuous moniker in itself and, if you keep in mind that most people approach ASOIAF from a plot-first, theme-fourth perspective, a fairly sensible one.  What isn’t either necessary or impressive is how Cat-as-mother is handle by the rest of the piece.

Catelyn Stark is like sitcom mom from the 1950s, like Leave it to Beaver or Father Knows Best: she means well, but she sometimes messes up (like when she captures Tyrion and then lets him get away).

This is a pretty, well, inane statement, putting aside the in-text issue of Cat’s arrest of Tyrion itself. There is nothing about a 1950’s sitcom mom stereotype that ever significantly spotlighted good intentions coupled with a tendency to fuck up. What prompts a person to write a statement like that? June Cleaver’s many faux-pas? Tell me if I’m wrong, please. But I don’t think I am. It’s an empty attempt to appear Knowledgable about female character types, I suppose, at best sincere and pitifully off.

There’s also the fact that medieval noblewomen are actually significantly different from 1950s housewife stereotypes.  But hey, why let a little thing like accuracy distract you from  catchy *cough* and witty *cough* generalizations that you are probably used to getting away with when talking about pop culture because, duh, moms aren’t exactly main character material or anything, so why bother when you’re not going to score with a demo?

In this way, Mrs. Stark is kind of like a female version of her husband, Eddard. There’s one big difference, though. Whereas Ned is a great dad even to other people’s kids (like Theon Greyjoy), Catelyn is very focused on her own kids – and not even on all of them, for that matter. For instance, when Bran is in a coma, Catelyn pretty much forgets her other children momentarily (15 Catelyn 3). And even when Sansa and Arya (and Eddard) may be in danger, she thinks only about protecting her son Robb by sending him home to Winterfell (56 Catelyn 8).

Probably the most irritating part of the analysis.  Theon’s recollection of his relationship with Ned goes (paraphrase): “Oh sure, Ned Stark had tried to be a father to him.  Sort of.  Now and then.  But LBR I wasn’t really impressed.”  If that counts as a “great dad”, you just know that the standards for praise-worthy fathering is a pretty low bar. 

Again, if I am wrong, tell me, but I don’t think I am: it’s hard to see this comparison being made without the Jon Snow issue.  Catelyn, of course, does not simply refuse to mother Jon because he is not hers, but because he is not hers and simultaneously is her husband’s, and since she is the only wife he’s ever had this means Jon is a product of Ned’s infidelity against her.  Theon Greyjoy is, of course, no such symbol of Cat’s infidelity.  Theon Greyjoy, additionally, is someone Ned chose to accept responsibility for, as a political necessity.  Jon Snow is someone Cat never was allowed to choose responsibility for, and by all appearances, was never even expected to by anyone

The comparison between the two parents is exacerbated because one of Ned’s themes in the book is that innocent children should not be killed as collateral damage.  This is, of course, a noble conviction.  But it has nothing to do with Ned’s parenting, vs Cat’s or on its own.  I would expect this same conviction from people who have no children, who have sworn off children, etc.  Certainly there is no special reward that is earned specifically from being a father who feels this way. 

Let us not also forget (though I’m sure many will, or claim that it’s not important merely because they were ignorant of the situation) that Cat’s story arc simply does not allow her to express any similar convictions; yet that does not make it logical to assume she does not have them (it’s actually really illogical).  In fact she is pretty horrified to learn that the young lord of Darry, a mere boy, was killed in the ensuing war.  Cat simply does not come across “other people’s children” very often in the book, and Jon Snow is more than just “somebody else’s child” but also a product of her husband’s infidelity.

To think this comparison is legitimate (it is not) is one thing; but to say it is the greatest difference between Ned and Catelyn Stark is quite another.  Probably far more relevant and interesting to the themes the website itself discusses is how Catelyn is more pragmatic and Ned is more idealistic, or how Catelyn is limited and shaped by gender limitations that don’t affect Ned.  Or perhaps how Ned is so much more immersed and haunted by his memories while Cat puts the past in the past to such an extent that more than one dudebro has accused her of willful self delusion.

And yet.  The fixation is on Cat’s self-centeredness as a mother.

This doesn’t mean that she loves some of her children more, it just means… well, okay, maybe she loves some of her children more.

One of the most mind-boggling aspect of how this fandom discusses motherhood is all the “evidence” they use to conclude that Cat is bad at thinking of and loving all her children.  Focusing on Bran when Bran is the one dying is weird and unusual and requires the explanation that Cat is a favoritist.  Recognizing that Robb is in danger and that she is only present to help him requires the conclusion that she is unaware that her other children are in danger because she hasn’t proven on the page that she has sufficiently suffered worry for the others and so it cannot possibly be.

It’s terribly unreasonable, and the worst part of this fandom is how people talk with such self-assuredness in spite of the poor thought process. It’s not quite smug, but only because you know that this is actually probably the limit of their intellectual grasp.  But that doesn’t make it less frustrating, because surely, people with Ph.D. and Masters programs at Stanford, Harvard, UC Berkeley, and other top universities, who have taught at the high school or college levels, are actually capable of better. 

See, it’s one thing when someone is at their intellectual limit; you can say that there is an imperative to make people feel bad about their intellectual limits because then it’ll motivate them to grow, but that’s not me. I actually have, as far as I can tell, a fairly average idea of what to expect from people: do your best. And it’s when I can see how smart some people in this fandom are that I get frustrated when they refuse to exercise that intelligence with this character because — well, why?  Because she’s Mom?  Because she doesn’t like Jon Snow?  Because she’s Mom but doesn’t like Jon Snow?

There’s this curious little parenthetical after announcing that Cat is from House Tully - “rival family alert!” Is House Tully supposed to be a rival family to House Stark? Hard to reconcile that with their narrative role as House Stark’s unwavering allies. Is it to refer to the armed hostilities between houses Tully and Lannister? That’s pretty low down on the profile of house animosities in the book, and there’s certainly nothing storied about it that sets it above and beyond the tensions between a lot of these houses. So maybe you can understand why all I am seeing here is a thoughtless reaction to the fact that House Tully is Not Jon Snow’s Family.

And so then we come to the elephant in the room.  Whoever wrote the AGOT feature states outright that Jon Snow is one of “our” favorites, which is a fine statement, but not really a professional inclusion.  Even that aside, though, it does kind of explain why, when I read their multiple assurances of, “Oh don’t get us wrong now we love Cat and all” it is hard to find any sincerity in it. 

And I think that’s one thing that I fail and I fail to understand in this fandom, why it’s more important to be emptily reassured than to seek out true understanding.  I’m not always the most suave person and I can deal with the ramifications of that; but I can’t help but also feel that there’s a fundamental weirdness in how people react to discussion of characters that has nothing to with curiosity or wanting to understand, but rather defensiveness of one’s officious assertions.  I don’t know what it is with this text, maybe because it seems like such a validating prize if one can claim to be the authoritative grasper of something so vast.  But it’d behoove people to actually do a close reading of the text first, before any throwing of weight is done.  If you do a close and intelligent reading of the text first, as far as I’m concerned you’re welcome to all the fandom fame and clout and whatever you want.

Painfully, shmoop tries to make it clear that they do — no really! believe them! they do! — like Cat.  Sometimes they are promising, like when they point out the unique perspective that Catelyn Tully, who later married a Stark, provides on the North.  Other times though:

You know what else Eddard couldn’t have done? Given birth to five kids. Doesn’t Catelyn Stark deserve some rest after that?

Yeah dudes, you, like, totally respect moms and stuff.  I get it.


Questions, comments, concerns, reblogs, replies, and rants are welcome, because I am ready and waiting and oh so willing for this debate.  Because I’ve had it.




Gallant, yes, and charming, and very clean. He knew how to dress and he knew how to smile and he knew how to bathe, and somehow he got the notion that this made him fit to be king.

Olenna Tyrell (via fuckyeahasoiafquotes)



Every once in a very long while, Lord Tywin Lannister would actually threaten to smile; he never did, but the threat alone was terrible to behold.

A Storm of Swords

One of my favourite Tywin moments. It’s so perfectly him: the calm, the composure, the quiet, ruthless brilliance, the charisma, the effect he has on other people. A man like him only comes once in a thousand years, as they say.  If he and his siblings were the main Lannisters in the books, I’d probably be such a Lannister fan. (via linndechir)

(via lions-of-the-rock)




nortonn replied to your post: Question regarding Tyrells, sort of spoilery: so it seems obvious that Olenna planted the poison in Sansa’s hair net. I get that you care about the well-being of your granddaughter over some other girl, but do you think that 1. Olenna intended Sansa to take the fall for Joff’s death and 2. Margaery knew about it?

I agree that they were sincere when they wanted Sansa to marry Willas, but it would make me so sad if Margaery knew that Sansa was going to get framed and was okay with it. She was her friend!


I think Margaery did know by the time of the wedding, and YES THAT’S EXACTLY WHY IT IS THE SADDEST THING D:  Honestly how anybody could read Sansa’s storyline and not feel for her is BEYOND me.

“Is it all lies, for ever and ever?”  Ugh kill me kill me now.  She thought Margaery was different :( :( :(




On Cersei Lannister and Lysa Tully

illneverwearyourbrokencrown:

While Cersei and Catelyn has massively interesting parallels and similarities, I think it’s also important to compare Cersei and Lysa Tully.

Spoilers through AFFC

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Both of them lost their mothers too.  Lysa had Cat for a while, maybe that’s part of why Cersei is more intent on being a man.  They’re both women with both a husband (a ruler) and a lover (a knight … Petyr’s not a real knight obviously but he did associate himself with the figure in the Brandon duel). Lysa was in Cat’s shadow while Cersei was in Lyanna’s, but Lyanna was the love of Cersei’s husband, while Cat was the love of Lysa’s lover.  In the end that’s also a difference, nobody loved Lysa (as in romantic love) while Jaime did love Cersei.

They both had reasons to want Jon Arryn dead too XD  I still wonder from time to time if both Lysa and Cersei poisoned Jon Arryn, thus explaining why Ser Hugh was promoted by the Lannisters the way he was.  Anyway, they both give the series a big jumpstart by the actions they take to protect their children.

This is a good post and you should feel good.  I feel like Cersei, Lysa and Cat are characters that really “talk” to each other through their variations.  Cersei and Lysa are women who rebel, and suffer in different ways for it (well … so far it’s arguable that Cersei was a victorious rebel since she successfully got rid of Robert and protected her children from that threat (their illegitimacy), but regardless of where they are exactly now they’ve had to live with a lot of wounds that have come from wanting more/elsewise than what fate gave them).  Catelyn OTOH works within the system until she’s practically forced out, so … you’re kind of damned if you do, damned if you don’t.  Terrible existence really.

Aaaaaaaaand now I want to finish my Lysa/Stannis AU fic because it has Lysa & Cersei interactions.




lionsandroses asked: Hmm. I think AFFC is kind of the counterpart of ACOK. I don't think much will happen in AFFC, just like in a ACOK. And yeah. I keep turning to the next chapter like Catelyn? AND THEN IT FLOODS BACK! :'( I thought the last paragraph in the RW was heart wrenching. Where she was crying and scraping her skin off of her face and especially when she was like "Not my hair, Ned loves my hair" and then they slit her throat. I was heart broken. She was like a second mother to me. I'm almost crying now. :(

Belated answer, but yeah it’s true it’s more of a set-up book like ACOK … but there are even more differences, but you have to wait until ADWD to see what I mean I think.  I actually think AFFC may be more of a clean-up book than a set-up book (okay a bit of both).  OTOH it has like all my favorite characters and I love it thematically so much.

UGH THE RED WEDDING.  It was spoiled for me and I still just … my heart fell out.  I think I’m still looking for it.  That line was SO SAD, like who cares about her hair at that point?  It’s nothing to anyone else, and that’s, like, so sad, man.  The contrast really made that line.




Spoiler~ Lady Stoneheart

got-confessions:

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She remembers, but she had what it took to keep those impulses at bay when she was alive.  She doesn’t have that any more, and it’s not an existence that she chose, it’s something imposed on her by … Thoros or R’hllor or whatever.

The point is that when you are reduced to only one part of you, you are less than human, because being human means to be made up out of conflicting, constantly inner-warring parts.




Spoilers.

notquitehisprincess:

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It’s actually really complicated, but you’ll have the whole picture by the end of the book.  I know, it should be a simple answer, but it’s not.

That might tell you something itself.




jane-snow:

i really want to believe that the tyrells are being genuinely nice

and that sansa can go live in highgarden

but who am i kidding

this is westeros and sansa is a stark




Even Roslin?  ;__;  She seemed innocent, no fair to punish her because her dad’s a jackass.

I mean, many Freys were in on it but some didn’t really like it at all.  They even had to send Perwyn away because they thought he liked Robb too much.